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ALLIANCE Live Interview with John Scott. 
Tuesday 10 March 2020 
Melting Pot – Edinburgh
In this Q&#038;A session Irene Oldfather from The Alliance interviews John Scott QC about the Scottish Mental Health Law Review. Click on the interview to hear John’s response to the following questions: 
Q: Can you tell me about the scope of the Review and why it’s needed?
Q: How are you going to ensure that people and communities get involved?
Q: So, for anyone watching this who has a story to tell how can they participate?
Q: Are there any big ticket issues that you’ve already identified that need attention?
Q: Lots of people are interested in Power of Attorney – do you think that will be about changing the law or the Guidance?
Q: There’s been some criticism about the current legislation not sufficiently protecting human rights – is that fair? How will you take that forward?
Q: What’s the timeframe for the Review?
Irene Oldfather – The Alliance

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In this question and answer session with John, we explore how COVID-19 has impacted the work of the review, including a change in the way we engage with our stakeholders, what we can expect the interim report to look like and how you can still get involved in the consultation. John also tells us about his new role and how the pandemic has affected him. Click on the link to listen to John’s response to the following questions;
Q: it’s been a while since your last interview John, and I think it’s fair to say that things have taken quite a dramatic turn since then. The Coronavirus pandemic has affected everybody in different ways, how has this affected you?
Q: What provisions have been made on the review to accommodate for your change in circumstances and shift in priorities for many of our stakeholders?
Q: So far we are uncertain about when the current social distancing measures will change, if things continue this way, will this change future plans for the review, particularly plans to consult with people in phase 2?
Q: We have seen a number of changes in the law in response to the pandemic, including temporary changes to mental health law, introduced by the Coronavirus Act. Can you explain a bit more about these emergency provisions and the impact these changes could have on the work of the review?
Q: For people out there who would like to contribute but don’t feel that they are in a position to do so at the moment, what advice would you give them?
Sophie Ryder – Secretariat

In January 2020 I took on a role I never thought would happen; I became part of the executive team reviewing Scotland’s mental health legislation.
I say I never thought it would happen not because I didn’t believe I had the skills, experience and knowledge of this area to do such a role, but my involvement was sought because I am a carer of someone who has mental health problems and it was that perspective the executive team wanted.
They also wanted the valuable perspective of a person who had been subject to the law and so I was joined on the team by Graham Morgan.
The inclusion of myself and Graham means that the review can be guided not just by a legal and academic approach, but also from a personal and lived experience perspective.
We need to hear from as many people as possible who have been impacted by mental health legislation
So, what’s it been like? It’s actually been both very interesting and daunting. Interesting because what we are doing is reviewing a large and complex area of legislation through the lens of the Convention of the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (CRPD) to ensure the legislation is enacted in a way which aligns, as much as possible, with the CRPD.
Daunting because mental health legislation is huge and the people involved range from those directly impacted by it, service users, carers and families, to clinicians, independent advocates, lawyers, mental health officers etc. It can at times feel like herding cats! But that’s what I love; the challenge of gathering views/concerns/issues and then looking at what can be done.
We are in the first phase of the review, gathering evidence and this is where you come in.
We need to hear from as many people as possible who have either been impacted by mental health legislation, and from people who have a role to play in using the legislation.
If you are reading this because you are interested in what the review is doing and have a view on mental health legislation or have been affected by it, please get in touch with us.
Given the current climate in relation to the threat of the coronavirus, we are now asking if people can respond individually or collectively via the online consultation.
What you tell us will help guide us to which parts of the legislation is working well and which parts need to be looked at and that the legislation remains fit for purpose, is not overly restrictive and keeps the person at the centre of all decisions made under the legislation.
As I say this is the first phase, we will be coming back and asking more questions and gathering more views as the review progresses, but if you want to contribute you still have plenty of time to share your views.
As a carer and named person for my husband, I can only stress to other carers and named persons please come forward with your views/issues/experiences of mental health law.
by Karen Martin

It is Monday morning and time for my jag again, or at least I think it is. I got a note saying all appointments with my CMHT were cancelled for 12 weeks a few days ago but at the same time I have an appointment for today and I am on a community compulsory treatment order so I assume that I will get my injection in an hours time.
It is a hard time for all of us at the moment; in my small family we have so far been ok if a bit bored and frustrated. The children worry most I think, being young and yet old enough to sort of understand what is happening they have nightmares and miss their friends terribly. Dash the dog seems most affected; he misses his walks with all the other dogs and has started scratching himself awfully. But absolutely tiny problems compared to what many of you will be going through.
With my work on the executive of the review into Scottish Mental Health Legislation I feel frustrated. Just before lockdown I had been out with the secretariat on visits, including people with lived experience and their friends and family, in Edinburgh, Oban and Mull and had had a wonderful if sad series of conversations which were very helpful and confirmed a lot of what I thought we might be finding out.
I joined the Executive fairly recently and have personal experience of the mental health act. I have had a diagnosis of Schizophrenia for the last 30 years and have had a number of hospital admissions on sections and have now been compulsorily treated in the community for the last ten years. If you want a more detailed record of my views about this then do read my book START.
I have also been involved in, what might once have been called, the User Movement for the last 37 years. I set up a drop in centre run by young people for young people when I was in my early twenties and then worked in Lothian in my late twenties where I was the first worker for CAPS and helped establish a number of collective advocacy groups and also worked alongside the Royal Edinburgh Patients Council on their management committee and helped with the early days with Advocard, all the time helping create a voice for our community.
After that I moved up to Highland where is set up HUG (action for mental health) which quickly gained an international reputation for its work both in speaking out and in challenging stigma and in its work with young people. As part of that I was a member of the Millan Review and the McManus review which both played a major role in our current legislation. I also helped a person with learning disabilities set up People First Highland while I was there and played some part in the initial Highland Advocacy Strategy.
I have now left Highland; live in Argyll and work part time for the Mental Welfare Commission as an engagement and participation officer. As part of that role I am often in different parts of Scotland meeting groups of people with lived experience and sometimes their friends and family, finding out how life is in their communities.
Part of that work has involved a number of consultations with people on their experiences and views on compulsory treatment and capacity and then a consultation on how people can be supported to make decisions when they are seen as acutely ill. The reports of these two consultations are on the MWC website. I am presently writing up a report of people’s views on how people can find out what our will and preference is when we are ill and when we are well.
As part of the work on compulsory treatment, I have spoken in Geneva to agencies charged with protecting people’s rights when they have been detained and with the United Nations Committee against Torture as well as at the Kings College Transnational Summit on Human Rights and the Law.
Despite having a great deal of personal experience and work experience finding out peoples view on detention I come to this review with mixed feelings. The legislation that applies to us fundamentally affects our freedom and our autonomy but also our right to health and life and the whole host of cultural economic and social rights that apply to us. I very much hope that, despite the greater restrictions the virus is subjecting us, to that we end up with legislation that leads to a much, much, better life for those of us subject to it.
But and it is a huge but; there is such diversity of opinion from people about what we need. I know some people who think any form of compulsory treatment is an abuse of power and akin to torture but also I have met people who view the death of their children as a failing of the mental health system and feel that if they had been sectioned they might have lived. I have a superb quality of life but many of my friends live in poverty and live lives where friendship is rare and hope a distant prospect. I also hear people say “What is the point in legislation when we cannot even get the basic help we need?” Balancing these views and listening to these varied perspectives worries me. It will be hard to do and will be hugely emotional but at the same time it is a great privilege to be a part of this process.
Currently I keep in touch with the rest of the executive and the secretariat remotely and now that it is impossible to meet people face to face am working on my troubled thoughts on how the human rights model of disability applies to all the situations we can find ourselves in and on just what the key issues around our social cultural and economic rights are for when we establish that advisory group. I am still to attend a meeting of the advisory group we have established on compulsion but very much look forward to meeting its members once we are in a position to do so.
I am excited and at the same time apprehensive about this review, I hope it delivers what so many people want it to, I hope if it doesn’t meet everyone’s expectations that they at least feel they have been heard. I hope what we end up creating is based on the reality of people’s daily lives and is not dictated by fashion and the politics which sometimes make things happen and sometimes leave reality behind. I look forward to meeting as many people as I can, as part of the work of the review team once we are in a position to do so.      
by Graham Morgan
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